Levels for learnt commands

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Levels for learnt commands

Postby Fantom on Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:12 pm

Right now we have an idea of "I know this command" or "I don't".

How about we introduce the idea of levels of a command, which you have to be taught to go up the level.

So to take an example of stab:
- you can be taught the command (level 1) once you have co.me.po to level 10.
- 15 gp to use.
- command probably takes a while.
- can't use large items
- at co.me.ed level 30 and co.me.po level 30 you can be taught level 2.
- can stab with edged items as well
- at co.sp level 50, etc, you can be taught level 3.
- can stab faster
- at co.sp level 100 you can learn level 4, takes on 10 gp to use.
- at XXX and level 5, it integrates with the "critical hit" systems and you can critical hit with a 30% increased chance when stabbing.
etc.

Warrior and Thief guild have trainers that will teach all levels.
Players can teach up to level 3 to other players.
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Re: Levels for learnt commands

Postby Lucid on Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:22 pm

That sounds like a new combat system to me.

Can we test it out on another server? I think the outcome would be to go down that road, just sounds scary til we know how exactly it works. I'm assuming you can still AA?

How are the levels gained in blocks like that? And how does it affect how we currently fight?
Do the existing players already have max levels for their main commands? (mostly everyone has maxed their guilds already)

I like that you used new skills to give new abilities to existing gcommands. And it all sounds good to be able to learn the extra things.

(An off topic here for a sec, but I think blackjack should do a stun for a few seconds. Possibly countered by another skill.)
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Re: Levels for learnt commands

Postby Fantom on Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:48 am

Hmm - wasn't meant to be a different combat system.

It was just meant to be more levels in any command, and I chose stab as an example of how you could train it to different levels and get more as you trained. The bit about criticals was just pie-in-the-sky stuff, not something that would come along any time soon.

The same idea works for the druid "heal" command.

It helps sort out the balance issue of letting players learn commands that are predominately from other guilds.

Re AA: Yes of course you would still AA, it's just like using the command now, just the level you have trained the command to will effect what happens when you perform it.
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Re: Levels for learnt commands

Postby Lucid on Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:57 am

So everything stays the same, and the guild trainers teach you other levels of skills? Ranks of skill sounds less confusing.
And so if you are someone that already qualifies in skills for mass levels, you can go there and train them up?
How many ranks of skill for each thing? And how many ranks are there to be?
Is this everything?
Are there actual new abilities to be gained in putting this in? You said crits are not any time soon. So what did you have in mind? Lost.
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Re: Levels for learnt commands

Postby Lucid on Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:00 am

Also..

Will the overall guild levels change?
Will there be somewhere that displays what rank level you are in a particular skill? Only in the guild hall?
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Re: Levels for learnt commands

Postby Fantom on Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:14 am

It has nothing to do with guild levels at all.

Skills (co/st/etc) and their bonuses don't change at all.

The commands that you can learn, which use skills, change. Right now you either know a command or you don't.
What I am suggesting is that we introduce levels to commands (not skills). Ranks is a good word and will be used henceforth.

So when you first get taught a command you get taught rank 1 for that command. And at some point, based on your skill levels, and the availability of a trainer, you might be able to be taught rank 2 for that command. A command can become more useful, more easily performed, whatever as you raise it up ranks.
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Re: Levels for learnt commands

Postby Lucid on Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:25 am

Will we be told what skills are required to learn to be able to advance another level?
And then is it just a matter of paying money/ xp to rank it up?
Your example shows training previously unused skills to upgrade a stab. Co.sp (which isn't a primary skill for thieves.)
Is this to improve the current guilds or is this more of something you have to do in order to learn the skills of other guilds?
Will the initial trainer be the guild leader?
And then when we are allowed to train up to 3 other people, we are able to teach people rank increases? That sounds odd to me. I think if you learn from other guilds you should be stuck with rank 1, and then maybe get a higher rank as you figure out the skills to rank increase it. But then if you want to rank up, you have to seek out someone from that guild. So, if you want big pk storm guy having level 2 stab as well, you should be shot! I'm rambling now. Still confused.
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Re: Levels for learnt commands

Postby Fantom on Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:15 pm

Will we be told what skills are required to learn to be able to advance another level?

Maybe?

And then is it just a matter of paying money/ xp to rank it up?

I'd anticipated it would be for free, but it could be an exp or monetary cost. It might depend on how you get it... maybe it is questing or maybe an NPC could charge you.

Your example shows training previously unused skills to upgrade a stab. Co.sp (which isn't a primary skill for thieves.) Is this to improve the current guilds or is this more of something you have to do in order to learn the skills of other guilds?

That was purely an example. I actually see stab as a warrior command, not a thief one. I'd be happy with both guilds being able to teach the command, although one guild or other might be better suited to raising it to a higher rank.

Will the initial trainer be the guild leader?

In most cases. Study/forage, for example, already have non-guild ways of being taught. This might become more common, but probably only up to rank 1.

And then when we are allowed to train up to 3 other people, we are able to teach people rank increases? That sounds odd to me. I think if you learn from other guilds you should be stuck with rank 1, and then maybe get a higher rank as you figure out the skills to rank increase it. But then if you want to rank up, you have to seek out someone from that guild. So, if you want big pk storm guy having level 2 stab as well, you should be shot! I'm rambling now. Still confused.

The exact rules and balances to control the spread of the commands would need to be sorted out, but my thoughts were:
- to teach a command to rank X you would have to be rank (X+2).
- to teach a command to rank X you would have to greatly exceed the necessary skill levels for learning that rank.
- player-to-player teaching might require the learner to have to have higher skill levels than if you were being taught by an NPC.
- I was not suggesting guild-NPCs would teach anyone other than guild members. To learn even rank 1 you will have to find a player who has the command to (for example) rank 3 and is willing to teach you.

Consider this a further step towards breaking the direct connection from guilds to commands. It's all about commands and how you can be taught them. Joining a guild is just a way of being taught commands (and to higher ranks) than are available to other non-guild players.
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Re: Levels for learnt commands

Postby Lucid on Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:38 pm

I think max rank should be 10, and then only AAing and raising skills can boost the power like normal.
So a goal would be to get as many commands at max rank as possible.
Anything beyond rank 5 should take considerable effort and time, experience/ money to achieve.
The people with 2000+ in skills would definately have an advantage here.

What do you suggest would be the best path to starting things?
I think the immediate guild commands should lay heavily on the guild trainer, but perhaps the trainer sends you out on tasks/ errands for extended periods of time to get access to a new rank.
Say Poeun, Minion, and Metallica should be able to easily get the first 3 ranks, but from there on is more of a mystery.

And is there going to be added ability? I think nullifying weapon weight being attributed to stabs, and nullifying natural light making it harder to blackjack/backstab would be nice upper tiered ranks to be made available. I think working on how the first 3 ranks are aquired could be done for now, though. Especially if there are quest-like or a bunch of NPC chats and help files needed to be done. (Astinus the librarian could have a special file on its operation.)

I think that aquiring a certain amount of ranks through tasks to appease the guild master could be actual guild quests for various rewards. I really like the idea of each guild having quests of their own.
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Re: Levels for learnt commands

Postby Fantom on Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:22 pm

Well I've started implementing this.

Playing with dion (barkskin) as the first test.
It will also be the first command which will be able to be taught player-to-player.

The twiki will be used to work out what the criteria for learning the ranks and what you get at each rank.
Overview: http://tharsisgate.dyndns.org/twiki/bin ... ntCommands
Dion: http://tharsisgate.dyndns.org/twiki/bin ... mmandsDion
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